Video transcript – Webinar: Managing stress during tax time

[Visual: The screen opens, with a title, displaying a title that reads “Managing stress during tax time”, with MYOB logo and the business.govt.nz logo underneath in the bottom right corner]

[Visual: Screen changes to show the host in the center of screen. White text beneath stating the name of the presenter, her position, and company (MYOB)]

00:01 [Anna-Louise Hoffman]

Tēnā koutou katoa everyone, we're delighted you could join us today for this wellbeing webinar in partnership with business.gov.nz. I'm Anna Louise Hoffman, the New Zealand Corporate Affairs Manager at MYOB. And I'm really pleased to be here today to host this discussion alongside the brilliant Dr. Addie Wootten, clinical psychologist, and CEO of Smiling Mind. Smiling Mind is a top digital lead prevention focused mental health nonprofit with a mission to provide accessible lifelong tools to support healthy minds.

00:31 [Anna-Louise Hoffman]

Now, before we get started, we wanted to acknowledge all of those who may be joining us from communities that have been affected by the recent extreme weather events. Our thoughts are with everyone that's been impacted. And while there are a range of areas where significant support is needed over time, over the coming months and years as we recover, we can only hope that some of our discussion and tips today may also prove useful for managing wellbeing in some of those times of high stress or overwhelm.

00:57 [Anna-Louise Hoffman]

For any MYOB customers joining us today, who have been impacted by these events. A friendly reminder that our financial hardship policy is available for those needing assistance or support. Now, stress is something that impacts all of us in different ways. And learning how to manage various levels of stress or feelings of overwhelm is not only beneficial one business, but for our overall wellbeing. MYOB last Business Monitor highlighted that around a third of SME owners or decision makers in New Zealand have experienced a mental health condition since starting or taking over their business. And of this group 85% reported being affected by stress and 71% said they've experienced anxiety. We know running a business, it's an easy and when you're facing economic challenges, struggling with workload and just doing what you can to support your people, it's understandable that you'd start to feel that weight on your shoulders, travelling a few deadlines, and getting into a state of flow can be a real challenge. So, the aim of today's session is to provide everyone with some practical tips on how to identify the early signs of stress and learn a few techniques for managing feelings of stress and overwhelm, particularly in times of heightened pressure and demand, like tax time. So please feel free to pop any questions you have and the chat box. And we'll try and get to as many as we can at the end. Smiling Mind has also provided a takeaway document with some tips like those we'll talk about today. And they should be appearing at the bottom of your screen to download. So, let's get into it. I'll hand over now to our guest speaker Dr. Addie Wootten.

[Visual: Dr Addie Wootten comes on screen after being introduced, white text underneath stating her name, position, and company]

02:28 [Dr Addie Wootten]

Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. I think you're right, every one of us will feel stress at different points in our lives. And today, we're going to talk through a whole range of information about stress and overwhelm. And really try and drill into what you can take away from this webinar to support your own mental health and wellbeing and to hopefully, learn some techniques to manage the impact of stress.

[Visual: Screen changes to presentation slide 1, explaining stress]

Slide 1 content

Stress is the response we may experience when presented with demands and pressures that are not matched to our knowledge, abilities, or resources and which challenge our ability to cope. It is an emotional experience associated with nervousness, tension and strain.

02:53 [Dr Addie Wootten]

So, we're going to start with a bit of a definition of, of what stress is. So, from our perspective, stress is the response that we experience when we're presented with demands or pressures that are not matched by our knowledge or ability or resources and challenge our ability to cope. So basically, that idea that stress is when we're confronted with too much, and we feel overwhelmed to manage it. And this can be a perceived or a real overwhelm. So, we're going to talk a lot today about how our mind plays a really significant role in our response to stress. As well as obviously, the situations that we're in. Stress is an emotional experience. It's, you will have all experience stress in different ways that sense of nervousness, tension strain, you might feel that, you know, heart palpitations, churning of the stomach. We all feel stress in different ways. But we're going to drill into what stress is and how we can manage it.

[Visual: Screen changes to slide 2, with stress as the header, an infographic of a brain in the clouds and bullet points. Presenter takes up a third of the left side of screen.]

Slide 2 content: Stress

• Inevitable and natural
• Is a normal response to danger and threat
• Motivating
• Drives performance

04:00 [Dr Addie Wootten]

So, moving along, stress is inevitable. Unfortunately, we're not going to end this webinar. With the magic cure for stress where we all experience stress, it's an inevitable and natural part of life. We can't actually survive without stress. It's our cue to danger and what might be happening in our environment. And it actually helps us in lots of ways to get it to get out of those dangerous situations. You might have heard of the idea of the fight or flight response so that this is our normal human reaction to stress or when we see threat or danger, and it's crucial for us in managing that threat or danger. We know that many forms of stress are actually really healthy for us, or certain levels of stress are healthy for us. It can inspire action; it can drive performance. It can help us with our productivity, but only at a certain level. Once Stress moves beyond that threshold, it can become quite destructive. We know that without stress to motivate us though, the other end of the spectrum, we may not be able, it might be tempting for us to relax and do nothing at all, or we might not have that drive to pursue our goals. So, I think that's particularly relevant when running, you know, a small business, it really is about that finding that right balance of stress that motivates us to keep going but making sure we're not overwhelmed by stress. The challenge with being a human, though, is our tendency to think humans think a lot. And that causes us a whole range of stressful responses or stress responses that we really can live without.

[Visual: Screen changes to show slide 3, to an image of a hand holding up a paper cutout of a tiger, with green bushes in the background, faded.]

Slide 3 content

An image of a hand holding up a paper cutout of a tiger, with green bushes in the background, faded.

05:55 [Dr Addie Wootten]

We call these this idea. In modern days, we're not confronted with those Tigers out there in the jungle that we have to get away from. So, the stress response is not commonly activated by our environment. Or granted, there will be times when the environment does impact on us. And the stress response is triggered into action. And that's really important. That really helps us to get away from the danger. But what we find in our modern world is that our mind triggers a lot of these, these responses, we call these paper, giant paper, tigers. So that idea that when we're out there doing our day-to-day work, we start thinking about things that cause us to go into the stress response. Unfortunately, a lot of us spend a lot of time in that activated state and enduring that chronic stress. So, feeling like you're highly activated by stress for a lot of time is really unhealthy for us. And that actually places really significant wear and tear on the body as well as our mind. We know that stress is a really critical part of many mental health conditions and physical diseases, actually, including cardiovascular disease, anxiety and depression, high blood pressure, sleep problems. So, tackling stress is really critical. Looking for how we can, how we can understand what our triggers are, how we can respond to those triggers in a healthier way and learn to manage stress is really important. In our everyday life, we know that there will be times when stress arises, there might be looming deadlines. Tax time is a really, really interesting time for high levels of stress. Or there might be things going on in your environment that feel a bit out of your control, and they will be times that you feel more stress, knowing how to manage that stress is really critical.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 4, new header says “red zone” with an orange background, the same graphic of the brain amongst the clouds is featured on the right-hand side, a series of bullet points are seen under the header]

Slide 4 content: Red Zone

• Hyperarousal
• Excessive busyness
• Hypervigilance
• Excessive thinking (dominated attention)
• Narrow focus of attention
• Defensiveness/reactivity
• Problem saturation
• Excessive judgement 

07:52 [Dr Addie Wootten]

 So unfortunately, a lot of us spend a lot of time in this red zone. We that this is the idea of heightened high levels of stress, it can, it can really impact on our physiological body. And so, this is the idea of being constantly in that activated flight or fight response zone. The fight or flight response is accompanied by a whole range of symptoms. And you can see here, you might find that you're thinking excessively about things, you're worrying about the future worrying about the past, you might be excessively busy thinking, thinking about one small thing and forgetting about the breadth of other things that are in your life, finding it hard to problem solve, finding it hard to make decisions, judging things unnecessarily, most of us spend a lot of time judging ourselves when we're in this red zone. And so, this is really the characterization of overwhelm. What we what we need to try and do is to spend less time in this red zone and find more time in the green zone.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 5, same format except new header says, “green zone” and the slide has a light green background]

Slide 5 content: Green Zone

• Rest/fun
• Nurturing
• Open awareness
• Growth and interaction
• Empathy
• Flow
• Vitality
• Flow
• Vitality
• Presence
• Concentration/memory

09:00 [Dr Addie Wootten]

Which is a completely different feeling. So, the green zone is where we need to spend more time. And we need to get better at finding ways to keep us in the green zone. So, the green zone is characterised by that, that that sense of safety, of relaxation of feeling in control. And we often talk about this green zone as being the rest and digest sort of part of of our life. Whereas the fight when we're in the fight or flight zone, so the red zone, our body actually stops resting, it goes into activation, and we stopped digesting. So, our body actually changes when we're in the red zone. So, finding time for quiet and focus is really important in this green zone. This can be related to a lot of our mental processes. So, thinking about how we're thinking how we're thinking about the situation that we're in I'm sure many of you have had those moments where you have those moments of clarity, you can make really good decisions, you can think clearly, that's really likely to be when you're sitting in that green zone. So, today's session, we're really going to try and jump into how we can stay in this green zone.

[Visual: Switched speaker to (Anna-Louise) – same background]

10:19 [Anna-Louise Hoffman]

So, Addie are the more times where we might be in the red zone, and what happens if we stay in that zone for long periods of time?

[Switched speaker to Dr Addie Wootten – same background]

10:28 [Dr Addie Wootten]

Yes, so the red zone can be triggered, as I said, by our external environment, but also our internal thought processes and our thinking. And it's interesting, I think we, we all have our own different patterns of what gets what trips us up and gets us into that red zone. For some of us, it you might have noticed, waking up in the middle of the night, feeling really anxious, you know, really tight chest wearing thoughts. And that situation is completely tied to our thinking. So, we're not in a dangerous situation, we're hopefully really comfortable in bed, we should be asleep, but yet our body is activated in that red zone. So that is a really, I suppose a warning sign for us as a stress is high, we need to do something about it. If you're finding that you're waking up at night, and getting into those cycles of high tension, high stress. There's certainly a tendency for most of us to feel high levels of stress when we are facing deadlines, or there are big, big things happening in our lives. And often that's attached to uncertainty. So, if you think back to the definition at the start, it's when we feel like our skill, our ability, our resources to manage things, enough to meet the demands that are coming at us. And so often that comes when there's a sense of uncertainty, you don't know what's going to happen. And sometimes, and we have this tendency of predicting the worst thing, and that spins us into a cycle of high stress. So, there are definitely times when we will spend more time in that high red zone. And yes, saying in the red zone is really damaging. It can for two reasons, it has a really big impact on our physical health, like I said before, so really, it does. It's like running a car, if you're constantly revving it and you know, in that high performance state, it will wear things out. And that's the same for our body. So, finding a way to move into this green zone is is really important. The other side of saying in the red zone too much is that our brain actually creates neural pathways that strengthen when we use them together a lot. So, if we're in the red zone a lot, and we're worrying about a certain thing, a lot, our brain has a tendency to go back to that it sort of strengthens that neural pathway. And so, we're more likely to feel it feel those feelings more and more. So, it's important to find the way for you to move from the red zone to the green zone.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 6, new slide has an image of a traffic light (half screen) and an MYOB background on the other half with the words “red to green” in white bold text]

Slide 6 content: Red to Green

An image of a pedestrian traffic light showing a red man for "don't walk" and green man for "walk", both illuminated.

13:06 [Dr Addie Wootten]

 So, we're going to talk about that now. What we do want to do is try and find the tactics and techniques that work for you to move from red to green, noting that you will experience stress, you will fall into the red zone. And that is okay, finding the strategies that help you move from red to green in a really personal way for you. We're all a bit different, things will work differently for different people. So, we're going to talk through a few different techniques that might help you to manage your stress and to in the moment, but also more proactively. If we think about stress as a series of physiological responses, we need to find a way to reduce those physiological responses, right. So, if you're if your body automatically goes into flight or fight response, finding a way to regulate your body to reduce that physiological impact is really important. So, one of the ways that we often talk about managing stress is a mindfulness-based technique. So, learning how to move your mind from what it's worrying about back to the present moment, and learning how to use that technique to then regulate your system. So, this might sound very simplistic, but it actually is a very powerful technique. And that is about regulating your breathing, learning how to slow your breathing down, breathe deeply into your abdomen, and taking a few of those deep breaths when you're starting to notice that your body is getting agitated or stressed, can actually be a simple enough anecdote to turn that physiological response off and to change that that pathway to the red zone. The other part of that is learning how to train your mind to move from what you're worrying about to that present moment focus. So, you'll hear this over again in this presentation, our mind is critical for how we respond to stress. We need to learn how to move our mind from the thing that's worrying us back to something that is in control that we can manage, that we feel good about. And often breaking things down into smaller steps can be really helpful there as well. So, learning how to focus our attention on one thing, our breath could be one thing, what we can see around us right now can be another thing. So, learning how to focus the attention back to the present moment to remind ourselves that we, we can hope, and we will get through this situation.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 7, purple background with cloud graphic, text on the whole right-hand side, heading on left side in bold]

Slide 7 content: The S-T-O-P technique

Stop – what you’re doing, put things down for a minute

Take – a few breaths

Observe – your experience just as it is

Proceed – with something that will support you in the moment – e.g. talk to a friend, rub your shoulders, have a cup of tea.

15:38 [Dr Addie Wootten]

Another technique is the stop technique you might have heard of it before. It's a really simple technique that you can use at any moment. Whether it be high stress periods, or low stress periods, if you just need to put a pause in your day. And the stock technique is all about stopping, taking a few breaths, observing how you feel, and then proceed on your way. What this stop technique does is, is put a break at a breakpoint in that cycle of stress. So, learning how to stop literally stop in your tracks, that breathing technique, and then checking in with yourself observing how you feel trying to suppose take a bit of a detectives view on what's happening for you. Are you worrying about something in particular? Is your mind predicting something bad happening? Are you thinking about the past and ruminating about the past and is that what's triggering the feelings that you're having now, simply observing that and paying attention to that can be enough to defuse that stress response as well and then proceeding on your way. So, using the stop technique can be really useful when you're in the red zone. But it can also be a really useful technique in your day to day when you're running your business, you're moving from lots of different parts of the day, you're having to do lots of different tasks. Actually, building in checkpoints and stop points is a really important part of learning how to teach your body how to not automatically respond and react to those stressful thoughts that might pop into your mind.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 8, it features the purple/orange branded background, boldened text on the left, and a graphic of a “brain” lifting weights]

Slide 8 content: Let’s think about stress more proactively

The words "Let’s think about stress more proactively" with a graphic of a brain lifting a weight.

17:21 [Dr Addie Wootten]

 So, there are techniques in the moment. What we know, though, is that managing stress only when crisis arise, arise arises or you feel overwhelmed by stress isn't the best manage stress, exactly the same as our physical health, as well, if we only went to the gym, when we started turning, you know, notice those aches and pains or felt a bit sick, we'd find it really hard to get physically well. So, it's the same with our mind, we want to be able to think proactively about how we manage stress and make sure we build into our day-to-day techniques and strategies that help us support ourselves in a more proactive way. One of the ways you can think about this is to have a think about moments when you have you felt a sense of flow, you felt a sense of relaxation, when you really feel in your, your prime, I suppose what was happening, then where was your mind? What were you thinking about? And how are you managing that situation? I would, I would hazard a guess that for most of us. It's when we feel in the present moment, we're focusing on what we're doing when not worrying about what's happening in the future or ruminating on what has happened in the past. We're simply enjoying what we're doing here. And now. You definitely notice that when you go on holidays, that you're in the moment you enjoy what you're doing, and our stress levels drop. So, the goal of thinking about how to proactively look after yourself and reduce stress is to think about how you can bring some of those approaches into your everyday life as well. Now, don't yell at me. I know running a small business is really hard. There's lots of things that are stressful. But thinking about moments in your day where you can bring a sense of calm in a proactive way can actually really make those stressful situations much easier to manage.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 9, orange background with a “quote” in the centre of the slide, title of “wise words” is present at the top]

Slide 9 content: Wise words

“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”  - Victor E. Frankl

19:15 [Dr Addie Wootten]

One example, that we often refer back to other words of Viktor Frankl, if you haven't heard of Viktor Frankl, he's written a number of books. He's a psychiatrist who went through the Holocaust and really looked at how he could cope in the context of significant hardship. And he talks about this space between stimulus and response. And in that space being the power to choose our responses.

So that idea of a choice point, a point in time where we can decide how we respond to a situation is what this comment is all about and finding that space takes practice, it takes work. But it can it when we, when we think about how we manage stress, it is about not reacting to things too quickly and not getting into that sense of overwhelm, giving ourselves space so that we can choose how we respond to situations. And part of that is around those techniques that I talked about earlier. And the idea of learning how to focus our mind on the present moment and noticing things in a particular way. So, trying to notice things with openness and curiosity, and try not to judge ourselves or the situation too much before we enter into our response. So, this simply requires us paying attention to what's happening, and before getting carried away by our emotions, giving ourselves cells a little moment to consider, what are the options that I have here? How can I respond to this situation? Again, it takes practice. But it's a really powerful technique for us to manage stress in a more proactive way.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 10, New slide has same colour background, a graphic of a person floating in the clouds, white text on the left side]

Slide 10 content: Emotions

• Important.
• Good vs bad emotions.
• The role of thoughts.
• Managing more effectively.

21:07 [Dr Addie Wootten]

 The other thing I wanted to talk about is our idea of emotions. So often, stress gets bundled up into this idea of a bad emotion. We don't want to feel it, it doesn't feel comfortable. It's it, it can derail us. But we know that emotions are really important. And I suppose the thing to bear in mind is that we're always going to feel emotions, we can't get rid of them. And so, we have to find a way to live with them and to live with them really well. So, this idea that we have good emotions and bad emotions can get us into this dichotomy of judging emotions. And there's been a whole lot of research, looking at the role of our thoughts. So often that labelling is a thought. So, stress is bad. Relaxation is good. That's a thought process that's happened in my mind. And there's been some really interesting work to look at whether when we get into that high state of stress, that red zone, is it because of the stress response? It's it only or is it because we're reacting to an emotion. And Kelly McGonigal has done some really interesting TED talks on this topic, if you want to drill into it a little bit more, but she talks about the idea of stressing out about stress. So that's that cycle of feeling stressed, and then stressing out because you are feeling stressed. And that is a really dangerous cycle to get into. So, finding a way to not criticise yourself, not judge yourself when you are feeling stressed. And learning how to slow that cycle down is really, really important. We know and those some emotions will be productive, and they're there at the right time. But we need to learn how to manage our emotions more effectively. So that's really about learning how to get to know emotions, what works for us, how do we navigate those emotions and not being afraid of those emotions. So, finding time to deal with those emotions when we need to.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 11, Same colour scheme for the background, a “brain” graphic floating in the clouds in the background, then white text covering most the slide]

Slide 11 content: Mindful Mindset

• Two helpful attitudes we can bring to our mindfulness practice and life.
• Nonjudgmental: Creating space from our constant judging and move into observer mode.
• Letting go: unhooking from thoughts.

23:12 [Dr Addie Wootten]

One way to do that is to think about our, our mindset, we call them mindful mindsets, the idea of the attitude or approach that we take to our life, how we navigate gait, our life. And there are two key mindful mindsets that we think are really relevant to stress. The first being the idea of trying not to judge or nonjudgment. Often stress comes when we when we underestimate our ability to manage something that's happened in our lives, or a real or perceived threat that's coming up in the future. So, I'm not sure if anyone else has ever done this. But we have this tendency that when we get home from a long, busy day, and our spouse says oh, how was the day we focus only on the things that went wrong. We tell them about all of the things like this terrible disaster that happened. And we forget about all of the good things that happened in the day. Our brain has this tendency to focus on the negative, it's called the negativity bias. And it's well researched, we know what happens. But what we need to learn to do is to not judge ourselves in those situations and learn how to move from only focusing on what went wrong to also a balanced view on what also went really well. So, finding space for us to go back through the day and look at how, how we're giving out supporting ourselves as well. Sorry, just one second, and the second one is letting go so learning how to let go of things that might be out of your control. So, the wheel We'll also all have a tendency to, to really beat ourselves up about things that we can't control and learning how to let go of things is really important.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 12., New slide has deep purple background, filled with white text and has a graphic in the background of a moon and clouds]

[Visual: Speaker goes off screen, slide takes the whole screen]

Slide 12 content: Stress and our lifestyle

Exercise, social connection & Sleep is essential for our wellbeing.

Social connection and asking for help

• Planning, getting support, knowing your strengths and getting help for areas that you know you might need help with (ie Tax!).

Sleep

• Find the right sleep rhythm for you between 6 10 hours a night.
• Prioritise your sleep.
• Reduce stimulates (alcohol, caffeine, screen time..).
• If your mind is keeping you awake set aside some ‘worry time’ throughout the day so you can write down your concerns and come back to them at another time.
• Put your phone away (in another room).

25:12 [Dr Addie Wootten]

Now, I'm just going to quickly touch on this last slide, and then we'll open up for questions. So, the other thing to consider when we're thinking about stress is our lifestyle. So, we know that exercise is a really, really important part of looking after ourselves, that physical response is really important. And physical activity is a key antidote to stress, really. And the other side, the other part of this is thinking about our sleep practices.

[Visual: Speaker comes back on screen (third of screen on the left side) – Dr Addie Wootten]

25:41 [Dr Addie Wootten]

 So, we know that a huge proportion of people don't get a good night's sleep. So, finding a way to get a good night's sleep is really essential. I think on the handout that we've got available; we've got a whole lot of tips to support people in getting a good night's sleep. And I really encourage you to think about how you look after yourself. So, you do get a good night's sleep. And that is about reducing caffeine, setting a sleep routine, making sure you're going to bed and waking up at the same time every day. And really trying to reduce that worry.

[Visual: Screen changes to show presentation slide 13, with a white background, three graphics going across the screen with headers and bullet-points beneath, heading in purple text at the top]

Slide 13 content: Practice tools

Mindset

• Notice judgements and see if you can be open, curious and kind.
• Practice letting go/letting be each day as best you can.

Practice

• S-T-O-P technique.

Action

• Mindfulness prompts and using the app.

26:09 [Dr Addie Wootten]

Now finally, a couple of things just to really quickly wrap up in summary of what we've talked about today. So, thinking about your mindset, noticing when you're judging things, finding a way to let things go and how you can be open and curious when you're navigating stressful situations. You can practice the stock technique, I do it all the time, even in between meetings, really stopping and pausing. So, I'm present and focus on what I'm doing at any one time. And then if you're looking for a resource, we have partnered with MYOB to develop a really great tool in the smiley mind app for small business owners and employees. And that will take you through a whole range of mindfulness resources to support your mental health and hopefully help you reduce your stress. Now I'll stop there and open up I think to questions.

[Visual: Webinar switches over to split screen of both speakers, and their names and info underneath in white text]

27:01 [Anna-Louise Hoffman]

Awesome. Thanks so much, Eddie. And noted on the caffeine front, which I say after having three coffees this morning, so no judgement, I'm sure I'll be fine by this evening. Now, a quick question from Martin actually on that. How can we manage eating less when we're stressed out?

27:17 [Dr Addie Wootten]

Now Great question. It is our natural tendency. And that you know, that is a physiological being our body's activated, it's using up a whole lot of energy. And it means that we're craving additional energy to balance ourselves out. There is no magic cure for this one. But I think it really is about finding a balance to that. So, if you're stressed and you're finding that you're craving food, if you can do some exercise, that will change your body's reaction. So even going for a 10-minute walk will give you a space where your body has a chance to work at work off that stress response. And hopefully that will reduce your tendency to grab a packet of chips or some chocolate biscuits. And I think awareness is the first step in that. So, noticing when you're starting to feel stressed, go and do something sooner rather than later before you feel overwhelmed by stress.

[Visual: Display reverts to split-screen view showing both speakers and their details]

28:14 [Anna-Louise Hoffman]

Awesome. And chips, definitely one of the first things that I would reach for. And now another question, a couple of questions here on the stock technique, and both quite similar. So how long do you need to be in the green zone to stop being stressed? And likewise, when we're thinking about the stock technique you talked about? How long does that normally take before you I guess, essentially start to feel the effects of that?

[Visual: Display turns to show just Dr Addie Wootten on screen, with a purple and blue background]

28:35 [Dr Addie Wootten]

Yeah, that's a really good question. So, the stop technique you can do. So, I would recommend three deep breaths as the sort of key anchor. So that's probably what 30 To 45 seconds, plus the pausing and the reflection. So, you might say for stop, take people maybe take a minute to go through the science tells us that our stress response can actually go through our body and, and stop within about 90 seconds, which is really quick. And I'm sure I personally don't I don't think I've ever felt a 92nd patch of five stress, I think it feels like it stays longer. And it stays on that because about thinking. So, you start to notice stress. And you practice that stop technique, you breathe deeply, chances are you can get yourself into that green zone within about two to three minutes. And hopefully that will be enough for your body to downregulate into to get out of that stress response. But remember that does mean that you have to focus your mind on the present moment. If you're if you do go back to thinking oh my god, what's going to happen, or I can't do this or any of those sorts of thoughts. It will trigger the stress response again. So, it really is about trying to focus your mind on something else. So, something that you have control over until you get back into that zone of feeling relatively times.

[Visual: Display changes to show just Anna-Louise on screen]

30:09 [Anna-Louise Hoffman]

Awesome. Okay, well, look, I think that's time for us. Thank you everyone for your patience and for joining us today. I am mindful of time, so I think we have to close themselves here. But thank you for joining us. I hope you found the session insightful and helpful for those who want to watch back at his slides or share some tips with your friends or colleagues. A copy of this webinar and the slides will be uploaded onto the stock app next week. And everyone who's registered will receive an email with a link to this. So, thank you all again for joining us. Thank you, Addie, for your time and expertise, and I hope everyone has a safe and restful weekend and all the best over the next few weeks in the run up to tax time.

[Visual: Display changes to closing screen, purple/blue background with white, boldened text stating “Thank you for joining”]

Slide 14 content: End screen

Purple/blue background with white, boldened text stating “Thank you for joining”

Video transcript: How to proactively support your mental wellbeing to avoid burnout

[Visual: The screen opens, with a title, displaying a title that reads ”business.govt.nz and Xero present this Wellbeing Webinar with Dr Elizabeth Berryman”, with the Xero logo and business.govt.nz logos underneath the heading.]

[Visual: Screen changes to shoot the host, Bridget Snelling, she begins to speak]

Bridget Snelling: Hi everyone. My name is Bridget Snelling, and I am the country manager for Xero New Zealand. Today, we are so lucky to have Dr Elizabeth Berryman joining us for a session on supporting our wellbeing, particularly around personal psychological health, and burnout prevention. We're going to learn some practical ways small business owners can support their personal psychological health and how to create a plan to be proactive in protecting ourselves. So I'm very excited to introduce our guest speaker, Dr Elizabeth Berryman. Hi, Liz.

[Visual: Dr Elizabeth Berryman video link is displayed.]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Kia ora everyone. Hi.

[Visual: Screen changes to show the host, Bridget Snelling, she begins to speak]

Bridget Snelling: Liz has a wealth of experience in the health sector starting her career as a registered nurse and community Māori health before becoming a medical doctor. In 2017, she founded Chnnl, a start-up with a mission to engage employees and monitor personal mental wellbeing and provide direct feedback, enabling management to take action in real time. She's hugely passionate about supporting people's mental wellbeing through digital tools. Hi, Liz, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm gonna pass over to you to take it from here.

[Visual: Dr Elizabeth Berryman comes on screen after being introduced.]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Fantastic. Thank you so much, Bridgette. Kia ora everyone, and it's nice to see you all online. I can see there's almost 300 people, which is super exciting. And I think it's a very topical topic. So I'm just going to share my screen and get started.

[Visual: Dr Elizabeth Berryman shares her computer screen. The live view of her is moved to the top right corner of the screen. She shares her presentation. The first slide is titled “What prep do you do before going on a Roadie?” It includes an image of a woman packing her car for a roadie on the left and empty text box the right.]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Today I'm going to take us on a bit of a journey. And we're going to use the analogy of a summer road trip for preparing for our mental wellbeing just like we would for a summer road trip.

[Visual: Dr Elizabeth Berryman changes to next slide entitled “Make a plan ahead of time”. It includes a background image of a person in a car, parked on the side of a highway in beautiful countryside. The person is leaning out of the car whilst holding a travel map of New Zealand. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Elizabeth Berryman: So what do we need to do when we plan for go on a summer road trip? Well, we need to make a plan, we need to know where we're going, we need to know what location we're gonna go what roads we're going to take. And we're going to need to know we're going in a car or we're going to fly, we need to make a plan.

It's the same when it comes to our mental health. We want to look at where we're going to be in say, three or four months time. Say it's February, March next year. Where do you want to be? What's your destination and your goal that you want to be? Think about how you're going to feel. Are you going to feel very motivated?  You're going to feel full of life, you're going to feel very excited about facing the next year? Or are we not going to feel that way?

So think about where you want to be and how you want to feel in three or four months time. And then it's time to sit down and take some time to make a plan. We don't often do this with our mental health. We often do it with our physical health -  we sit down and we go, "oh, I need to eat dinner". And "I need to exercise". But often we don't really think about that when it comes to our mental health.

But you'd agree with me, it's just as important that we do that. So, if you can, take some time in your calendar, schedule out a good two or three hours, and sit down and go okay, so I know when I'm feeling good, when I'm feeling well. And when I'm at my peak performance - this is how I feel. And then plan to how to get there.

So some of the things you consider on your plan is about: over summer over Christmas am I going to take time to build some social connections? And we're going to take moments to reach out to friends and family that I might not have seen for a while and build their social connections because you know that that is something that builds your wellbeing.

For other people it might be music, we talked about Summer roadie songs. Take some time to go "actually I'm gonna build on some time to do some music and to build that into my routine for my for my plan for my mental health over summer." Some other things that you can think about is around ensuring that there's like four different areas that we can do with our mental health and it comes in at te whare tapa whā. So it's about the physical wellbeing, spiritual wellbeing, physical wellbeing and whānau and social supports. So if you're thinking about a plan can, you look at those four different areas and make a quite a holistic plan for yourself for your mental wellbeing.

[Visual: Moved onto next slide, title: “Technology? Good or bad?”, This slide contains the title, a circular photo of a cell phone displaying a map application on the right hand side, and an empty text box to the left. Dr Elizabeth Berryman presenting in the top right corner. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Technology can be good, but also it can be bad. So if you're using it when we're on the motorway, and we're on our phone and not on hands free, then there is a danger and a risk zone. So let's talk about that with our mental health.

So there's some amazing research by Professor Jared Haar from AUT University and his research is on burnout. And one of the things that he discovered from his burnout surveys during lockdown and beyond is around this concept of being tethered to our phones or tethered to technology.

So what's happened with lockdowns is that we've  got a computer in our pocket. So we've got technology in our pockets, we've got emails, there's no barrier between home and work. And so our technology now work is creeping in. And so what we're realizing is that actually, this is a huge stress point for our brains.

We need to have that break time between technology between work and home. And so technology is blurring those lines. So what his research showed was that people that untethered from their devices for at least 24 hours were able to decrease the risk of burnout. Absolutely fascinating. So just 24 hours of untethering.

Now, what untethering means is actually complete break. So not just "Ah, I'm just going to switch off my work stuff", but actually all your social media and everything else as well. So I thought it was a great opportunity over summer, when we have got some time to be at the beach with friends and family, just to have that in the back of your head and go "actually, can I completely untether for 24 hours, like I'm with my family, if something's going to happen, someone will have the phone, they'll get a hold of me. But just for 24 hours, can I just let my brain completely untether from technology".

So that is one of the aspects of technology that is not so good for burnout. But there is some good things. So as mentioned in the introduction, my research is in e-mental health in digital health therapies. And what we found is that actually, we can use tech for good. And there're some amazing products out there - and Chnnl - which is what we run.  is, is have some options for people to be able to put those goals in place to manage the use of technology, and being able to understand exactly how we can monitor our mental health through our technology, but also promote it as well. So using technology for good, and being in control of it.

[Visual: New slide, titled “Plan your rest stops”. The slide has a background image of a tree-lined highway with a road sign titled “survive this drive” indicating a rest-stop is available in 5km. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: So we're going to plan our rest stops. This is something as small business owners, I think we're really good at, is just keeping on keeping going. And just pushing through and being like, "Oh, okay, I'll let my team have a nice day. But actually, I'm just going to keep working through".

And I think over summer it’d be really important for us to actually book in those rest stops. It's actually okay to take a long weekend, and to take out a Monday or a Friday, and just be like "actually, guys, I'm taking some time for my wellbeing". Modelling, that kind of behaviour is really, really good for your team to see that you are prioritizing your mental health. If you're saying to them, "I want you to prioritize your mental health", but then you're not taking those actions yourself, they see you do another thing.

So try and book in those rest stops. Because we know that we're always going to have things coming in, we're always putting out fires. But for now, try and look at some times in your calendar where you can book out some of those rest stops. And then try and do that untethering. Like, even if it's just an afternoon, go, "Okay, I'm gonna take three hours, I'm gonna go to the beach and have my rest stop and untether from technology as well" And then just check in with yourself and go "Actually, how do I feel after that? Am I feeling better? Am I getting more clarity?" And things like that.

[Visual: Changed to next slide entitled “Recognise Early Warning signs”. The slide has a background image of a car’s dashboard and speedometer with warning signals alight for the passenger door, oil, seatbelt, battery, handbreak and central locking. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: So recognize early warning signs. So now we're on our road trip, we're on our way to our destination. And we've got our dashboard in front of us. And we can see a whole lot of things that's giving us information about how we're doing. And one of those key points of information is the dash lights lighting up. So if we see the oil light coming on, we know that we're not going to be able to keep driving, we're going to have to stop, pull over and get that checked.

So this is a really, really important part of mental health and wellbeing is being able to recognize those early warning signs in yourself and be like, "actually, I can see those early warning signs". Like sleep. Sleep is a really clear indicator. So if you're not sleeping, if you're waking up early in the morning, if you are waking up in the night with racing thoughts, unable to get to sleep, those are some of the early warning signs that might be going "Hey, actually that oil lights on, it might pay to get that checked".

So some other things that sometimes we can't recognize those early warning signs ourselves. And it can be quite cool thing to be like, chat to a friend or chat to a family member that you trust and be like, "Hey, if you recognize some of these early warning signs, can you let me know?" For instance, you know, like, for me, in particular, I think one of the things I do when I'm stressed is actually I swear a lot. And so one of my colleagues is like, "Oh, actually, you're just swearing a little bit more or less. Are you okay? Is things okay?" And I'm like, "I actually I am a bit stressed at the moment. Maybe I will take a check in with my counsellor and see if there's some stress reduction things that I can do."

So it might be different for you, think about what your early warning signs are. Ask your friends and family. What do you think my early warning signs is because we know that preparation and being prepared is key. So look at your dashboard for indicators.

[Visual:  Next slide is displayed, with the heading “Know who to call” and a background image of a man standing next to a car in a parking lot at night. The car’s hood is up. The man is wearing a high-visibility vest and has a mobile phone to his ear. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: The next thing is, is that when those indicators come on, what do you do? So you know, you've got your oil light on your pulled over on the side of the road, who you're going to call? Well, you might have roadside assistance, you might have AA, you've got it in your phone.

You've got Star triple two or whatever the number is, you know who to call and they can come and help you. So do the same for your mental health. 1737. Pick up your phone right now and put that number in. 1737 is the national helpline number for mental health, and anyone else that you want to have a call.

And now, it might not be you that's broken down on the side of the road, it might be one of your employees, it might be a friend. So, you need to have that number on hand so you can share and go, "Hey, this is the number 1737, you can text them or call them."

The other thing you can do is the Xero assistance program called XAP. So, if you are a Xero user, you check out the XAP website. I think I have it here (or Bridgette can put it in the chat as well, where to go) and you can get access to three sessions of counselling. And so, you have that number as well.

Because when you're in distress, when you're on the side of the road, and things feel a bit overwhelming, your brain goes a bit mushy. It doesn't think logically like it normally does; the front part of your brain shuts down. So it's really good to have these things in place now know where to get them so that when you're in those moments of crisis and distress, that you know exactly what to do, and you know the number to call, and you can talk to someone who can talk you through the process. So, I'd recommend that doing that right now is getting those numbers to knowing who to call.

[Visual: Next slide entitled “Recognise things that increase risk” is displayed. The slide has background image is a blurred image of a car speeding past an “80km” roadsign. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Another aspect of Professor Jared's research on burnout was to recognize things that increase risk. So, he's got an amazing write up, which I'm happy to share with you, about some of the things that increase risk. And one of those things is working hours.

So, no surprise, the longer that you work, the more at risk you are for burnout. In fact, for those in the study who worked more than 55 hours a week - were 400, yes, 400 times more likely to experience burnout. So, kind of the analogy here is around speeding. So if you're going to the speed limit, say 40 hours a week, then you've got a lower risk of burnout. If you're going you know 110-120 k’s an hour, you're more likely to increase your risk of having an adverse event, a car crash, or getting a speeding ticket.

So, the same kind of applies for working hours. So, the more that you work, so over 55 hours, and then he saw if you worked over 65 hours, and then the highest risk, which pretty much like if you continue to work 80 hours a week, you were going to end up in burnout. It wasn't just an increased risk, it was a correlation.

So, working hours is really key. And I think as small business owners, especially during the summer months, if you're in retail, or if you're in construction industry or something like that, where there's like a huge amount of pressure to get things done by Christmas, or the Christmas crunch is coming, then just to watch out for those hours. So if you are working, you know, 80 plus hours, and you'd have to do that, then make sure that you've got other protective factors in place.

So, you know that you've got higher risk here. So, what are the other things that you can do to put protection in for yourself? So those kinds of things are, like, actually making sure that you've got those rest stops put in.

So, you might be working 80 hours, but you can have a rest stop. And you can take a four day week at some point. So making sure that you can plan that out. And being aware of the warning signs and the things that increase your risk.

[Visual: The next slide is displayed, with the title “Drive to the conditions”. It has a background image the view from the inside of a car looking out of a rain-splattered window at the street beyond. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: The next thing is driving to the conditions. So, I think it's safe to say that we have all been through an incredible pressure cooker with the COVID lockdowns and I was actually in Australia last week, speaking at a conference and after my presentation, there was another presentation about worldwide data on how everybody has bounced back post COVID.

And it was actually interesting to see that the UK and the USA, had actually almost bounced back to the normal levels of pre-COVID. But in Australia and New Zealand, we were actually still lower. So we're 20% lower than what we were pre-pandemic. And so I think it's just quite good just to call that out and be like, we're actually still going through a whole lot of stuff. We're still processing what we've been through, we're still, you know, got workforce pressures, and there's still a lot of hangovers. And just to admit that and say "Actually the conditions right now, they're not the same." Pretending that they are as not helpful. So being able to call that out talking, to employees and people and saying actually, we're gonna have to drive to the conditions, like we don't have the amount of staff that we should have. So, what are some things that we can do to address it? And how can we slow down or perhaps look at different ways of doing things? Because the conditions have changed.

[Visual: The next slide is displayed, with the title “Example of early warning sign: Take the offramp”. It has a background image of a double laned-motorway with off-ramps. Green grass and bush surround the road. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: How am I doing for time? We're a bit over because of my tech glitch, but just to say here that I've got an example of an early warning sign.

So, as I said, sleep is one of the early warning signs that it's something that is potentially stressful or not going so well. And so, one of the things is that you can wake up in the night and you have those thoughts going round and round and round. Some of those thoughts are called rumination, where you rethink the same thing over and over again or overthink it.

And so, one of the cool things that we can do in therapy is talk about taking off-ramps. And so, if you are feeling that you're having those same thought patterns, we'd say, this is the motorway, right, once, as soon as you start thinking about the same thing over and over again, it becomes a neural pathway. And then your pathway becomes so well-trodden that it becomes like a highway and a motorway, and the thoughts go faster and faster. So we need to reprogram the brain.

Reprogram the brain means we need to sometimes say "hey, brain, we need to take an off-ramp, we need to change some of our thinking patterns." This takes time, and it takes sometimes support and therapy to do it. And we've also found that medication such as antidepressants can also help with this. So, it does help stabilize mood, but it also can help neuro-regeneration, which means that we get new growth and new pathways forming. So not only does medication help with mood, but it can help with us reprogramming our brain and to healthier thinking patterns so that we don't get stuck on the motorways, and we get really great new pathways forming.

[Visual: The next slide is displayed, with the title “New Perspective”. It has a background image of  a central Otago mountain line with snow on the tops. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: And my 10 points, the last one is a new perspective. When we get to our destination, we arrive at the amazing beach or the location that you have chosen, you get a new perspective. You change your scene and you go oh my gosh, things aren't as bad as what I thought they were. Or actually, I can see it from a whole new angle now. And I've got a whole new idea. So getting a new perspective is sometimes a really great point, especially in business, when you're thinking about, you know, the new way forward. And what we're going to plan for the next couple of years, getting that new perspective and getting some hype, sometimes getting up on high and having a look can sometimes help by being in nature as well, as it helps us with our thinking, and our mental health as well.

[Visual: The next slide is displayed. The slide contains a Venn diagram (diagram of two intersecting circles). The left circle is labelled “Good Work”, the right circle is labelled “Good Health”. Where they intersect is labelled “Full Potential”. The speaker box at the top right of the screen shows Elizabeth Berryman talking]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: So, what we do at Chnnl is we help people make good work conditions. So making sure that we've got the right environment for people to thrive. We ensure that people have got good health, and they've got those good things in place to support their mental health. And together when we have good work conditions and good health, we can have full potential for our organizations and our employees. So thank you for your time. And I'm really excited to see some Q&A with Bridget now.

[Visual: The next slide is displayed. It is entitled “Want to know more?” Beneath the heading is the following text: Mobile: +64 27 406 7940; Email & Book appt: liz@chnnl.app. A weblink to book an appointment https://calendly.com/lizchnnl(external link). Website: www.chnnl.app(external link).]

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Bridget Snelling.]

Bridget Snelling: I'll kick things off. So that was fascinating. And I absolutely love the analogy of the summer roadie, because I think we can all relate to that. And, and by the responses we had earlier, we can see that people love to take a road trip. But what's something you mentioned that I thought was really so apt, was about how we are tethered to technology?

And I know you know, I mean, I know that I try really hard when I'm with my kids to not be on my phone. But you know, you've got people with different demands. Everyone wants to ask you something and they want to respond straightaway. What is something that you do or that you encourage others to do to try and break that habit of reliance? You know, because it is something I feel like we're all addicted to so what would you recommend, like for me over the summer? What should I do to try and reduce my reliance on my phone?

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Dr Elizabeth Berryman]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Yeah, absolutely. So something that actually so Tech for Good. So Apple have put in this bedtime routine that you can set in the new iOS. And I've been using that. And it's been really helpful. So it'll go “duh duh duh duh duh bed time now, time to wind down”. And I actually didn't realize that it put my phone on focus mode as well.

And so it actually stops any notifications coming through and it puts you into this like, "Okay, now you're not going to be on your phone so much." So if you don't have that if you're on android, I think there are some apps that you can get as well that will help set with that bedtime focus, routine, and untether. And then once I discovered this focus mode, I actually use it all the time now.

So if I want to have like we have Wednesday morning deep work time. So for two hours, I'll set the focus. And so only emergency calls can come through and like day-care, because you know, that's an emergency. So making sure that's there. And then it's actually really productive because I'm not getting all these pings all the time and notification. Distracting.

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Bridget Snelling.]

Bridget Snelling: Yeah, I love that. That's so good. I think that that's the thing, we can make the most of the technology by using the features that gives us to help us not be so tethered to it, can't we? Okay, now I've got heaps of questions coming through. So let me quickly fire into them. So let me just go back up to the top. I could jess one oh, sorry, my box keeps flipping around. This is from Mason, Mason asks, If you could recommend three things weekly to improve my mental well-being what would these be?

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Dr Elizabeth Berryman]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Yeah, fantastic. So I thought about that I was like the one takeaway that I actually want for small businesses today is actually to look after your own mental health and well being.

 It's that whole saying about put the oxygen on first before putting on oxygen on somebody else. The thing is, is that you're not going to be able to help anybody else if your tank is low. If you've got no fuel in the tank, if you're feeling low and burnt out, you're not going to be able to help your employees you're not going to be to help your colleagues.

You need to be the best that you can be to empower those around you and to build a great business. So over summer, go actually, I am going to prioritize myself. I am going to put fuel in the tank, and I'm going to do that, not for me but for my team as well. I think we're quite martyrdom. And we go, “no, well, I gotta be the hardest working person in my business.” We know that. But we need to model that behaviour as well for our employees.

So the three things I would be, I'd say is do the basics, and do the basics well. So the basics are making sure you have a routine for exercise, making sure you're eating right, making sure you're sleeping right, and making sure you have a plan, the plan in place for when things go pear shaped, because sometimes they do - have a plan to know what to do.

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Bridget Snelling.]

Bridget Snelling: That is great advice. And following on from that is, there's another question that says, “How do you manage other people's expectations, so you want to be unavailable, you want to untether but some people don't want to let you do it. Any advice for how to manage other people's expectations”?

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Dr Elizabeth Berryman]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: That is a good one, boundary setting. Boundary, boundary, boundaries! So bloody hard to do!

Myself, I find it very hard. So, I think there's some great books and some podcasts and things you can learn about boundary setting. And it's funny, because the more that you actually do set the boundaries, people respect that.

And it's actually healthy, it's healthy for relationships to have boundaries. So don't think it as a bad thing. Like, "oh, my gosh, I'm a difficult person, because I'm saying no." Actually, it's good and it's healthy to have boundaries.

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Bridget Snelling.]

Bridget Snelling: Amazing. Thank you. And boundaries are so important. So there's lots of questions here. And I'm just trying to make sure I have some of them are very similar. So I'm just trying to group them. One of the questions is, “what are some other early risk signs apart from sleep issues?”

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Dr Elizabeth Berryman]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Yeah, great. Okay. So drinking more. Difficult during the Christmas time, because we will tend to be a bit happy. But if you notice that you're drinking more than normal, and especially if you're daytime drinking, that's definitely an indicator.

And if you notice that and somebody else or in yourself go, actually, I probably do need to go and take myself off to the doctor and have a chat. And, yeah, just other things like your stress levels. Like I think what we noticed that that data I said from Australia is that we haven't quite recovered.

And so what we're starting to see is that people are like simmering along, and it's just one little thing, and then they'll spark off and they'll go really, in your face, I think customers as well, like something will happen, and they'll just fly off the handle and like that's totally unproportional to what the stimulus was.

And I think that is just a sign that people are simmering along and to take that kindness. And to go actually, it's not about me, it's not about this issue. They've got other stuff going on that they're dealing with. And to take that compassionate, empathetic approach before just reacting back to them and being like, why are you so angry?

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Bridget Snelling.]

Bridget Snelling: And people are asking, “Did we miss a section on how you do your own check-in before you take off on the road trip with your mental well-being?”

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Dr Elizabeth Berryman]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: We built an app for check-ins. It's called Chnnl. So if you want to know how to do check-ins, for yourself, and for your team, there's the Chnnl app available, it's only available, we actually, you have to have a minimum of 10 people to be able to use the Chnnl platform, because we do data and insights and be able to see like, what are the main issues coming up that we can put some controls in.

So,  yes, so you can design your own check-in. And it's a really good habit to get into. So yeah, highly recommend doing a check-in with yourself. And with your team, really easy to do.

Sometimes you can just say, "Hey, how are you guys going out of five? Just give me a number. Are you a one? Are you a five? How you doing?" And so it's a good way for people to be like, "actually, I'm just a three." And then you know, you know, okay, this is where that person's at. You don't need to know why. You just need to know that there are five or there are one.

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Bridget Snelling.]

Bridget Snelling: Liz, there's a few questions here about rumination which you touched on. And people asking, How can I address this without therapy? Or is there another way to break rumination other than medication or professional counselling?

[Visual: The speaker box at the top right of the screen changes to show Dr Elizabeth Berryman]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Yes, it's good question. So there's lots of self help out there. The beauty about Google is that you can get things at your fingertips. There is some amazing, well it's based on CBT.

So cognitive behaviour therapy has a lot of tips and tools, tools to be able to break some of those thinking habits and biases that we have. So yes, give a Google of CBT. There's some apps out there, just a thought is a great app, I think it's free. It's amazing. So it takes you through self-help with breaking some of those thinking habits and generating new pathways.

[Visual: Dr Elizabeth Berryman stops displaying her screen. The speaker box is enlarged and shows Bridget Snelling talking. ]

Bridget Snelling: So we're gonna have to wrap it up there for time. But thank you, everyone, for attending this webinar. I hope you've found something very useful out of the content. I'm sure you have, as I have. I think there's some great tips for us to take on board as we head into the very busy summer period before we all hid away on our own road trip. So Liz, thank you so much for your time today. It was fascinating. And obviously you're a font of knowledge. And I'm sure there'll be lots of people checking out the Chnnl app to to get some more insight. So thanks so much.

[Visual: The screen changes back to Liz Berryman to close off.]

Dr Elizabeth Berryman: Thank you.

Ends